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  #21  
Old 03-07-2007, 10:34 AM
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17 psi is the max on stock blocks

thts 1 run at 17 psi

14-15 should be ur max

i would say a smaller turbo would be better, quick spool and little lag

if u have an auto tranny, be careful.... real careful
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Originally Posted by Danny
the s2k is like a hot lesbian with a 9k rpm tongue. the sti...is like a hardcore porn star...that likes @ss to mouth.
  #22  
Old 03-07-2007, 10:48 AM
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you should read the turbo builds on EH, they got alot of tips on boosting while still stock
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Originally Posted by Danny
the s2k is like a hot lesbian with a 9k rpm tongue. the sti...is like a hardcore porn star...that likes @ss to mouth.
  #23  
Old 03-07-2007, 11:01 AM
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Bigger list of definations: here

Turbo Efficiency Maps: here

from cb7tuner

-Internal Wastegate: incorporated within the turbocharger. It is comprised of a wastegate flapper as well as actuator. The actuator has diaphragm that is connected to a vacuum source (charge pipe, intake manifold). When this source reaches the preset pressure, it will open the flapper and allow the excess exhaust flow to exit without running into the turbine.


-External Wastegate: is separate form the turbo. Usually, it is mounted on the exhaust manifold. However, depending on the type of turbocharger used, it can be mounted on the WG flapperís dump (advanced).

Charge Pipes: The route for the compressed air from the turbo to the intake manifold.

Front Mount Intercooler (FMIC): Intercooler that is mounted in front of the car. It is the optimal air-to-air intercooler due to its distance from the engine bay. They are also mounted in front of the car, usually behind the front bumper cover.

Side Mount Intercooler (SMIC): Found in most stock applications. It employs the same principles as the FMIC, except is located inside the engine compartment. This intercooler is more discreet, however they are less efficient. Due to it being in the engine bay, they are subject to high temperatures.

Fuel Management: There are many different types of fuel management available. Based on your budget as well as horsepower goals, you would pick which one best suits your setup.

-Standalone ECUs: These are the most expensive of your options and the best. They have the capability of running your turbocharged application as if it were a stock application. However, this kind of comfort comes at a high price, usually in the thousands. Common manufacturers are Motec, AEM and Haltech.

-Chipped ECUs: The affordable alternative to Standalones. Their cost can be from anywhere around 140-600 dollars, depending on the program. They come with features found in the standalone, however they cannot be modified as easily. When ever the user/tuner wants to change the tune, a new chip must be burned in order to do so.

-Piggyback ECUs: These are good way of controlling your fuel needs. They get the name piggyback, because they are usually mounted on top of the stock ECU. They function by intercepting ECU signals and feedback and modifying it to suit your needs.

-ECU Hacks: These are your VAFCs and SAFCs. These inputs are modified by the user and require quite a bit of knowledge to tune with. Unfortunately, by its nature the ECU is unaware of the altered fuel signal. This makes tuning very critical.

-FMUs: Fuel Management Units are the cheapest but most inefficient way of modifying your fuel. They raise inline pressure to force more fuel into the cylinder every time the injectors open. Due to this, they are incredibly dificult to tune.
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Originally Posted by Danny
the s2k is like a hot lesbian with a 9k rpm tongue. the sti...is like a hardcore porn star...that likes @ss to mouth.
  #24  
Old 03-07-2007, 11:04 AM
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Frequently Asked Questions

What is the purpose of a Blow-off Valve?
The BOVís purpose is to protect the compressor from a condition called compressor surge. Compressor surge is a condition where excess boost has nowhere to go when the throttle body is closed between shifts. Repeated compressor surge erodes the fins of the compressor wheel and eventually can cause this:



What is the purpose of a Wastegate?
The purpose of a wastegate is to set the turbo to put out a desired amount of boost.

What is the optimum compression for running a turbo?
Depends on the tuner. Higher compression allows for a more efficient setup. Every psi will yield you more hp. However tuning these higher compression setups are very intense. In most cases, an engine builder will seek to lower the compression to allow for an easier tuning session.

Whatís a wastegate actuator?
The wastegate actuator is part of the wastegate that pushes the flapper to allow the exhaust gas to bypass the turbo.

What controls boost pressure?
The wastegate controls the boost pressure.

What does an intercooler do?
When air is compressed, it becomes really hot. The intercoolerís purpose is to cool off this compressed air.

What is turbo lag?
Turbo lag is the time it takes for your turbo to crossover to boost and reach the desired psi (or point where its efficient)

Who makes turbos (companies)?
Garrett/AiResearch is the prominent maker of turbos. There are other companies like Mitsubishi, Toyota and Nissan that manufacture their own turbos for their cars.

Can nitrous be used in conjunction with a turbo?
Nitrous can definitely be used with a turbo as long as the tune of the setup can accommodate it. Nitrous generates plenty of extra heat. It is recommended that the block is properly built and coated to withstand such heat. Provisions like an oil-cooler would be beneficial in these kinds of setups.

Is it necessary to upgrade the fuel system for turbo?
It is in-fact necessary to upgrade your fuel system to accommodate turbos. The turbos put out more air. Without more fuel you will create a dangerously lean condition. To prevent such conditions, a fuel upgrade consisting of at least larger injectors should be made. The injectors are in the front line when it comes to turbo charging. There are other items such as FMUís, FPRís, Fuel pump, rails, and filters that can be considered based your power goal.

What does sleeving do?
Resleeving is a process in which an engine block is fitted with new cylinder walls. In F23 applications, it can allow us to use bigger bore pistons, as well as eliminate a condition known as cylinder walk. Cylinder walk is commonly found in open deck applications.

Whatís the difference between an open deck and a closed deck?
An open deck block has its cylinder sleeves separate from the block castings. It makes the block lighter as well as cooler. However, it is not good for performance, as it allows cylinder walk or cylinder rocking. And example of a open deck block would be a F23. A closed deck block is a block where the sleeves are pressed into the block casting. These blocks are stable under heavy boost pressure.

What is a block guard?
A inexpensive route to ensure the cylinder sleeves of an open deck block do not move while under boost. It usually is welded into the block.

Should your piston heads be changed? If so, what is the difference between flat top, dish top, high dome, and low dome?
Depending on your compression goals you would change your pistons. When looking at turbo, the optimal piston for ease of tuning is the dish tops. They generate the least compression out of the available choices.[/QUOTE]

Air-Fuel Ratio (AFR): Is the ratio of fuel to air in the combustion chamber. This is read by the oxygen sensor of your vehicle.

-Stoichometric Mixture: Commonly referred to as "stoich", this AFR is the ideal in fuel consumption, emissions and power. In simpler terms, the engine waste virtually no fuel at this ratio. Most factory engines come tuned to run at this ratio while cruising. However in performance situtations, the ratio tends to differ +/-3 points in either direction.

-Lean Mixture: is a condition when there is more air present than in the stoich mixture. This will raise the AFR's number above 14.7:1. In some cases a lean mixture can increase horsepower, however it also adds extra heat. You would find the use of lean mixtures more in naturally-aspirated applications simply because they can disperse of heat quicker than forced-induced applications.

-Rich Mixture: is a condition when there is more fuel present in the AFR than the Stoich mixture. This lowers the AFR's number below the stoich mark of 14.7:1. A rich mixture can help cool down the engine in some applications. In Naturally-aspriated applications that have large strokes, a rich mixture helps keep the engine cool. Its even more important in applications with high compression. Where rich mixtures are seen prodominently is in most F/I applications. Due to compressed air having so much heat, the added fuel helps cool the engine and helps to prevent detonation.
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Originally Posted by Danny
the s2k is like a hot lesbian with a 9k rpm tongue. the sti...is like a hardcore porn star...that likes @ss to mouth.

Last edited by BadgerType; 03-07-2007 at 11:06 AM.
  #25  
Old 03-07-2007, 11:05 AM
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Oh ok. Thanks I'm getting my auto to manual swap before anything lol. So I don't need to worry about auto trannys what else would I need to be able to push 20 psi like some block work.
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  #26  
Old 03-07-2007, 11:08 AM
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sleeves for your block, whick requires ur engine out of ur car.

reccomended for high boost, but cost money
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Originally Posted by Danny
the s2k is like a hot lesbian with a 9k rpm tongue. the sti...is like a hardcore porn star...that likes @ss to mouth.
  #27  
Old 03-07-2007, 03:27 PM
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Whoa whoa whoooa... lol. Let's analyze this a bit...

iStealBunnieSz, generally, the larger the turbo, the more lag you'll experience. Upgrade options such as ball-bearings will help reduce the lag.

A t3/t04, 57 trim and .48a/r would be an excellent choice for our 2.3L SOHC motors. It will spool fairly quickly (my guess is full boost by 2900-3100 rpms) and the efficiency will fit the air flow capabilities of the 2.3 very nicely, probably starting to run out of breath at about 280-300whp. My turbo selection with a .63a/r might take a bit longer to fully spool up, but the dual ball bearings will help (maybe 3200-3400rpms), while this turbo will not run out of breath until maybe 400whp, give or take a little.

When quantitizing the output of a turbo charger, referencing by pounds of boost pressure can be extremely inaccurate. 10psi on a smaller turbo will not be the same as 10psi on a larger turbo. Instead, I believe that final horsepower provides a more accurate representation of a turbo's capability. So along with what I stated before, it would be better to state how much horsepower a stock block can handle, before damage will occur. This is the ONE time I recommend judging power in HP, and not torque, as this forcing of air, and flow ability of the compressor is related to engine RPMs, which of course one of the key variables of HP calculation.

Most people will see 190-205whp out of a stock F23 with a basic turbo kit. Depending on the turbo, manifold efficiency, and other variables, this could be from 6, up to 9 pounds of boost pressure. This is generally considered the maximum safe output of this motor, with very little effects on reliability. Some people who actually tune their motors with a stand-alone, or piggyback(anything other than just a fuel management unit, FMU), may be able to achieve upwards of 260whp with very few problems, though this is not a bolt-on affair.

Transmissions. To my knowledge, the manual trannys have no issues holding power, though a performance clutch is a good idea. I wouldnít even begin planning a turbo build with an automatic transmission. Besides the obvious failures, auto trannys and forced induction are a bit like oil and water in my eyes. They just donít mix well.

Amount of boost for one or two races? If you just want to go all out for one race, why not run 30, or even 35psi?? Sir, if you run 20psi on the stock block, even once, you are guaranteed disaster.

BadgerType, good info in the FAQ. Not so good on the block advise. The sleeves of the F23 are its strong point. This motor is already iron sleeved, and ready to handle high power levels. The weakpoint however is the ring lands; the grooves in the pistons which hold the metal rings that seal the pistons to the sleeves. These are VERY weak, and if not tuned correctly, will blow in an instant.

The solution? Forged pistons. The F23, with forged pistons and rods alone, can handle MASSIVE amounts of power. Of course while the motorís apart, you need to invest in new seals, bearings, pins, and such, to ensure that youíre starting with a fresh bottom end. As far as the head, it is just fine for a boost setup. You could upgrade the valve train to rev the motor higher and take advantage of a larger turbo, get a mild cam regrind for a nice gain, but it canít be too aggressive or youíll have too much valve overlap, and cause boost leaks. And of course, port, polish, valve job on the head, throttle body bore, and intake manifold work would be a plus as well.

Now that all my secret plans are out of the bag, I hope this hasnít confused anyone. lol Keep this thread going.
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2001 CG3 eCtune'd F23 417whp, 398wtq
  #28  
Old 03-07-2007, 04:05 PM
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Thank you very much AFAccord rep points to you! I got a couple of questions mind if i can pm you?
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Originally Posted by mnaccord View Post
Fuqking clean
take notes people - this is the proper way to do an accord
READ & SEARCH STOP ASKING DUMB QUESTIONS!
Fo' Do's Mo' Ho's #001
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http://board.accordtuner.com/showthread.php?t=32734
  #29  
Old 03-07-2007, 06:26 PM
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After everything this is what ive come up with ..

Parts
T3/TO4 a/r .48 turbo.
FMIC
550cc Injectors
Blitz or Greddy BOV. ( Need opinions on this )
Downpipe
H23 IM ( Need opinions on this )
Charge pipe.
External Wastegate.
Chipped P28
ARP Head studs ( Only headwork ima do..)
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Originally Posted by mnaccord View Post
Fuqking clean
take notes people - this is the proper way to do an accord
READ & SEARCH STOP ASKING DUMB QUESTIONS!
Fo' Do's Mo' Ho's #001
Hid Kit Club! #001.
July 07' ROTM Winner
http://board.accordtuner.com/showthread.php?t=32734
  #30  
Old 03-08-2007, 08:56 AM
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Hey iStealBunnieSz, sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday. I spent 30 minutes typing a response, and when I clicked submit, the browser froze up. Really pissed me off! lol I've still got the window up, buy only 1/4 of what i typed can be seen. I'll redo it when I get some time today.
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